Well, I dropped Rye off at his fishing tournament bright and early this morning. It’s a beautiful day here so he should have a good day and I now have some time to myself to piddle as Don is out of town visiting family for the weekend.
As I was driving to the lake I couldn’t help but think that I am a bit concerned these days about keeping Rye on the straight and narrow. He’s about to turn 13 and he’s definitely getting to that period of life where him and his friends are starting to get a bit wiley. I mean, they are good kids. They all pray and all seem to have a good connection to God but still, they are easily sidetracked. And the night before last a bunch of them spent the night at one of the friend’s house and apparently had quite a time. And stayed up very late. Call me a cynic but I can’t imagine that was a tale of purity.
I guess it’s true that if Rye was any old Joe kid with any old Joe steady-Eddy parents I probably would not be too concerned. I mean, kids will be kids and teens will be teens and Rye has had a great deal of freedom over the years and still continues to have a lot and has always made good decisions so far. However, I liked excitement in my teen years and Rye’s dad, BigB, was off the charts. Beginning young and throughout his life he has really struggled with drugs and alcohol, has been to jail many times, and has been to prison. So, not to overestimate the impact of genetics or anything but it is something to keep in mind. It would be ignorant not to.
Anyway, as I was driving and thinking I looked to my left and there it was. An AA house. Alcoholics Anonymous. A whole stand alone house just for their meetings. It even had a sign out front designating it as such. And there were a bunch of men out front smoking and chatting. Now, I’m going to be honest, we have lived in this area for many years and I have never seen an AA house anywhere. And now here we are out in what seems like the middle of nowhere, on the one day in a long time I have even been mulling this issue over in my mind, and there it was. Well, of course I took it as a sign. How could one not? This didn’t happen by accident.
So I decided, I am going to take Rye to a few AA meetings and let him see how this all plays out of you aren’t careful or start making bad decisions. Maybe he could hear some stories of people hitting bottom and what it took to recover and all that that entails. He’s definitely the type of kid that needs to see things up close and personal and hear the stories straight from the horse’s mouth or he’s not buying it.
Maybe it will have an impact. Maybe it won’t. Maybe I don’t need to worry about it all that much. Maybe he’s got the sense to make good decisions without this kind of exposure. Maybe he doesn’t. Who knows. I do know it can’t hurt him. It won’t hurt him to go to a few meetings. And it might really help him.
Preventative measures, I tell myself, preventative measures.
10 Comments
I think it could be perceived differently in his teen mind as intrusive and pre-judging of him, based on a background he has never experienced, with his bio-Dad.
Yes, genetics could be a factor, but basically his direct influence will be (where he lives now, who he hangs out with) and ultimately it will be his personal choice and living life is all based on choices, mistakes and learning from them.
Parents need to allow the kids at this age to begin to test their own convictions, think for themselves and live with consequences.
I see your point. However, Rye does have a background with bio-dad and experienced quite a bit of trauma at the hands of bio-dad that he still struggles with understanding today. And I believe making good decisions involves having all of the information one needs to make a good decision. If one has addiction directly in their family and has been directly and negatively impacted by it, it is good to understand how addiction works. And I believe it will be a relief to him to see people who have struggled with this and come out the other side. The implication is not that Rye will be an addict by any means but that he has a higher predisposition to it and therefore needs to be all the more aware and educated.
I actually think he will enjoy the experience and it will be a relief to him. And my guess is he will have a million questions for whoever he can talk to. He’s a talker and he’s a kid that like directness, honesty and truth. In fact, one time a few years ago he went to a church group session for kids with parents with drug and alcohol problems and he found it to be greatly relieving. He went completely on his own based on his confusion and questions regarding bio-dad. I didn’t even know he had gone until after the fact. And he really enjoyed it – he could not stop talking about it. He may not live with bio-dad and has not for many years but bio-dad is always in his mind and for that reason lives strong in his life.
Some interesting dynamics in play here.
A) Do supposed genetic predispositions lead to actual outcome.
B) Do self projections and predicted outcome lead to preemption
C) Does a scared straight philosophy show positive results when used before there is any actual problem to be confronted.
D) Do our own fears, history, and insecurities actually have an effect on predicting future behaviors in children (you could call it the “crystal ball syndrome”)
Just from a personal prospective, I’m not so sure I buy into the whole sins of the father are passed on to the son/offspring premise.
I have seen the pendulum swing both ways to often to say there are definitive conclusions to be drawn either way. Sure there are many instances where offspring of those with addictive problems follow the pattern and become ensnared themselves in similar situations. Yet. there are just as many instances where the opposite occurs with no deemed adherent behavioral traits.
Nature verses nurture; or is it a little handful of this and a pinch of that?
I’m all for open communication and some complete honesty discussions in regards to past family behaviors and actions that could possibly predict a future problem. Quite often some frank airing of these realities and the consequences related to them are without doubt justified.
Though, I would be very careful on how far to take such measures in apprehension that a silent lurking label might be unknowingly created, which could be construed as an unspoken expectation to be fulfilled as some form of predisposed manifest destiny.
Preemption is a touchy area that I personally believe is best to be tread upon lightly .I hope we would not start medicating someone because they may or might develop some form of disease in the future. I would also be weary to the problem that when we begin to look for something earnestly, unfortunately we often find what isn’t there.
I would also hope in a similar light that we would not overreact by exposing the innocent to an environment that could have negative ramifications/repercussions out of our own fear for undetermined events or outcomes that may not ever be manifested in true reality.
I guess you must ask yourself the hard questions when making these kinds of choices; is this about an actual problem occurring before me, or am I reacting to personal fear and pain from prior events not truly related to the actual situation presenting itself.
Some times a reaction/preemption without the correct basis or foundation, can have unintended or opposite results.
It been said: be-careful what seeds you plant and where you plant them; for from a seed grows many things, and with this act roots will surely take, and from this soil and place it shall be nourished, for as time itself hastens growth, this bared fruit result in kind has no predictable tell of ripened good nor bad.
I understand your point. I think we may be over thinking this though. I’m curious to see what Don thinks. I’ll ask him to post his thoughts and weigh in on this when he has a chance to view the post.
Personally, I would look at such a trip as a “vaccination” of sorts. The science tell us that there is definitely a BIOLOGICAL component to addiction, regardless of whether one embraces the idea that a tendency towards addiction is genetic.(as I do.) We are urged to get flu shots because MAYBE the strain in the vaccine is the one that is going to be floating around, other vaccines are required by law–if any woman of Ashkenazi Jewish descent was offered any kind of vaccine for breast cancer just in case they MIGHT get the disease, being in such a high risk group, they would take it. If Rye is the kind of kid who listens and learns, it seems to me that exposing him to the conseqeunces of addiction is not at all a bad idea–as I said, something of a “vaccination”. The whole line of thinking that EXPOSING him to the consequences of addiction might give him the idea to try drugs and alcohol sounds like the arguments some use to keep birth control out of public schools–”it will give them IDEAS.” If they’re breathing, they’ve already GOT the ideas.
Let’s say that I had tried cocaine in the past. And let’s say that Stan tried it. I tried it once or twice, moved on and didnt develop a “taste” for it. Stan tried it once, twice, three times and what do you know? Stan cant stop. Both Stan and I have a switch in our brain chemistry or body chemistry–his flipped, mine didnt.
I agree that “nuture vs nature” plays a big part, but that cant explain the families with one alcoholic or one drug addict, with everyone else not even having the urge. Learned behavior does not explain it either. In my mother’s family, her father was an alcoholic. A blind stinking drunk kind of guy. My mother did not drink, her two brothers did not drink, HER mother did not drink.
My brother, two first cousins from one uncle, two from the other uncle were either drunks or drug addicts. Remember, none of our parents drank at all, complete tee totallers as well as our grandmother. Learned behavior, something that they observed from our grandfather and emulated?
Nuh-uh. He died before all of us were born, none of us ever even met him. And, they didnt learn the behavior from one another either, we grew up in different parts of the country and saw each other three times a year at most. How to explain the 7 of us who are neither alcoholics NOR drug addicts and never were? 5 switches flipped, 7 did not. That argues strongly for genetic tendency to me, anecdotal though it might be, study after study proves it in.
Thanks for the cocaine offer, when should I be expecting my shipment in the mail.
LOL..sniff sniff
There is a key component which you may have misplaced within the nature verses nurture argument; That family are not the primary influences in everyone’s life, peer groups and associations may very well be just as large a factor in substance abuse and addiction as immediate family members. In fact situational life forces (stressful events and trauma) can also play key rolls in whether someone might look to a substance for relief or not.
I did not negate that there maybe some biochemical (genetic if you may) forces also in play than can make one person more susceptible and another not. I don’t believe we have the science to make those concrete kinds of determinations in the addiction spectrum anymore than we can in the mental health arena. There are just to many variables that must be figured into any equation to make those types of substantive calls.
I would also like to clarify that it was my personal opinion which stated information and consequences should be discussed in depth and at great length, especially in situations where they have played such a powerful and significant force in a particular family’s life. I only disagreed with some reasonable concerns/reservations that an adult AA meeting might not be the most appropriate place to immerse a 12 old about the evils of addiction. I also wouldn’t agree with taking child into a maximum security prison to mingle with the inmates would be an appropriate mechanism of teaching a child consequences associated with crime.
I gather we can agree to disagree at that level.
On a mildy related note, an interesting example of cocaine addiction.
http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/2010/03/cocaine_surgery_and.html
I’ve just come back to read the comments and referencing #2, explains a little more as to why you would take him to an AA meeting, and explaining how he sought the church group for discussion explains a little more background of your son’s quest for information based on his father’s background.
PS–if he does have an addictive personality/genetic background, then the psych meds could benignly fill that role, just as a thought. Seroquel, for example has street value and has been abused by prisoners and snorted, quite a lot written about it out there. There are bloggers out there with addiction problems (one mental health blog in particular that I read) where the person ditched drugs/alcohol, but loads up heavily on psych meds and caffeine, and writes openly about the struggle being almost equal in “want” for it all.
I think explaining your son’s background helps, because otherwise readers (like me)take it as face value that you may have had an “aha” moment, of “hey I think I will show him all of the people w/problems to learn a lesson by in an AA meeting”.
Anyway, discussions are always good!
Yeah Stan, we will have to agree to disagree on that level, because I also think–and have witnessed–that “Scared Straight” kind of stuff has a fair degree of success.
Sorry about the coke though, no shipments to be expected, LOL.
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